RFK Jr. and Sen. Patty Murray get into fiery back and forth in Senate hearing
Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. slammed Washington Democrat Sen. Patty Murray for "presiding over the destruction" of Americans' health across her more than 30 years in the Senate in a fiery exchange May 20, 2025.
Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. slammed Washington Sen. Patty Murray during a Tuesday Senate hearing for allegedly "presiding over the destruction" of Americans' health across her more than 30 years in the upper chamber.
"You've presided here, I think, for 32 years. You presided over the destruction of the health of the American people. Our people are now the sickest people in the world," Kennedy said to Murray during a tense back and forth Tuesday morning.
Murray began her tenure in the Senate in 1993.
"Seriously?" Murray interjected.
Sen. Patty Murray and Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. at the hearing.? (Getty Images)
"What have you done about it?" Kennedy shot back. "What have you done about the epidemic of chronic disease?"
As the two continued talking over one another, the subcommittee chair, Republican West Virginia Sen. Shelley Moore Capito, asked Kennedy to "hold back and let the senator ask the questions."
"Mr. Secretary, I'm asking you a question about child care," Murray continued. "I'm asking you who made the decision to withhold child care and development block grant funding?"
"That was made by my department," Kennedy responded.
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Kennedy appeared before the Senate Appropriations subcommittee Tuesday morning to answer questions related to HHS' budget proposal for fiscal year 2026. The hearing comes just after Kennedy joined lawmakers in both a Senate hearing and a House hearing, both of which included fiery exchanges between Kennedy and Democrat lawmakers.
Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. slammed Washington Sen. Patty Murray, pictured here, during the May 20, 2025, Senate hearing for allegedly "presiding over the destruction" of Americans' health across her more than 30 years in the upper chamber. (Greg Nash/Pool via Reuters)
Murray continued in her questioning that the HHS was making vast cuts to scientists at the agency, which Kennedy dismissed, citing that he does not "trust" Murray's information.
"And you said last week, quote, ‘We were not cutting thousands of scientists,'" Murray continued. "'We are not cutting clinical trials.’ But I want you to know, in the last four months, you fired or pushed out nearly 5,000 NIH staff and terminated more than 1,600 NIH grants. That includes more than 240 clinical trials across the country. So whose decision was it to fire scientists and terminate these NIH grants and the clinical trial?"
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"Senator, I don't trust your information with all due respect," Kennedy responded, continuing that Murray's previous remarks in a recent hearing were not correct. "You told me what, three days ago or four days ago, that we had cut a clinical trial in your state and… what you said turned out to be completely untrue. And you knew it was untrue because you corresponded with (Director of the National Institutes of Health) Jay Bhattacharya before that."
Secretary Robert F. Kennedy appeared before the Senate Appropriations subcommittee May 20, 2025, to answer questions related to Health and Human Services budget proposal for fiscal year 2026. (Rod Lamkey Jr./The Associated Press)
"You came here to argue with me," Murray added. "I came here to ask you questions about your budget request. Your budget request is asking us to cut dramatically. But I am also making the point that Senator Baldwin made, that what you are doing right now is enacting your budget, that Congress has not passed, by cutting critical funding across the board."
Murray's office released a statement later Tuesday arguing that Kennedy "made a number of totally unfounded allegations, in particular relating to Senator Murray’s constituent," named Natalie, during the hearing.
The Washington lawmaker said that Natalie was told by her NIH doctor that her care was delayed due to staffing cuts at NIH.
"Natalie’s care has been complicated, but here’s what’s not: her NIH doctor told her twice that her care was explicitly delayed due to NIH staffing cuts—specifically, that she would have to wait eight weeks rather than four to have her cells re-infused. On the question of credibility, I will trust an NIH doctor over an anti-vaccine conspiracy theorist every day," Murray said in comment provided in a press release responding to Kennedy's remarks in the hearing.
"After an initial contact with RFK Jr.’s office last Wednesday, it was complete radio silence with no answers until about an hour before today’s hearing. It should not take me raising this issue with RFK Jr. face-to-face to make sure NIH is working the way it’s supposed to."
The Washington Democrat previously exchanged barbs with Kennedy Wednesday, when Murray accused him and the Trump administration of delaying critical cancer care for Natalie.
"Mr. Secretary, one of my constituents… she's a mom of two from Bainbridge Island in Washington state," Murray said in her opening line of questioning Wednesday. "She has been fighting aggressive stage four colorectal cancer for nearly five years now. Her best hope now is a clinical trial she's participating in at the [National Institutes of Health's] Clinical Center."
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Sen. Patty Murray previously exchanged barbs with Secretary Kennedy Jr., when she accused him and the Trump administration of delaying critical cancer care for one of her constituents. (Saul Loeb/AFP)
"But because of the thoughtless mass firing of thousands of critical employees across NIH and HHS that you carried out, Natalie's doctors at that clinical center have told her they have no choice but to delay her treatment by an additional four weeks."
"I can't tell you that now, Sen. Murray," Kennedy responded. "What I can tell you is that if you contact my office tomorrow, I'll look specifically into that."
However, that answer from Kennedy was "not acceptable" to the senator.
"That is not acceptable," Murray shot back, eventually demanding Kennedy provide her an update on Natalie's case within 24 hours. "I want an answer."
Kennedy added during Tuesday's hearing that Murray's constituent had qualified for the clinical trial "this week," adding that "we shouldn't be talking about patients' private information," with Murray agreeing.
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Fox News Digital's Alec Schemmel contributed to this article.
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